Sport Thread - f1 world championship

[kingqxxx]

Did anyone watch the race last night? One of the weirdest outcome I have seen..

For those who are not into it or didn't follow the season. Basically hamilton and verstappen were on equal points after 21 rounds. Whoever finish ahead takes home the big tophy. As the weekend and 3/4 of the race unfolded, Hamilton clearly had a faster car and tophy was in his bag. 5-6 laps to finsih verstappen was still 12 sec behind (pretty big gap in F1 terms). There was no way verstappen could have won it seems. Then back marker whom supposingly has no influence crash out and yellow flag came out. It just so happened hamilton has gone past the pit entry and verstappen was approaching it, so verstapen got a free pit stop and new tyres. It took until last lap before marshal clear the track. Moment before restart and 1 lap to finish there were 3 back markers stuck between hamilton & verstappen. This put the racing steward in an uncomfortable situation of having to decide whether to let the backmarker unlap themselves. A good steward/referee should be an invisible one but in this instance they got caught smack bang in the middle of it all. Basically, damn if they do, damn if they don't. Whatever decision they made would decide the champion in different ways.

Hamilton drove a flautless race and had a faster car and lead 57.5 out of 58 laps. he just didn't win..

This one is going to be talk about in years to come.

[poida]

Was a great race, it's always full of drama, that's F1 for ya. Flawless racing with no drama is just boring :)

The final lap was a fantastic battle.

Had a few bets going for Max to win, ended up doubling my money :)

[Vader]

The ending was a farce. I am not a fan of either Lewis or Max but Lewis should have won. Up until the safety car he had a 10 second lead and five cars between him and Max. If they were going to make it a 1 lap shootout they should have let Lewis change tyres for equal footing. Just shows that rules ain't rules for TV. Anyway, everyone will have their views but it will go down as probably the biggest screw up in F1 history and it was a dumb Aussie that did it. Just my 2 cents

[fud]

Couldn't script the ending in a wild fit!
Apparently appeal to be considered and could take a few days:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-13/formula-1-mercedes-appeal-max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton/100694842

They'll consider the appeal and make a judgement.

That could take up to a few days, but it can't drag on forever — we should know the verdict before the World Championship trophy is officially presented at a ceremony in Paris on December 16.

[Vader]

Couldn't script the ending in a wild fit!
Apparently appeal to be considered and could take a few days:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-13/formula-1-mercedes-appeal-max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton/100694842

They'll consider the appeal and make a judgement.

That could take up to a few days, but it can't drag on forever — we should know the verdict before the World Championship trophy is officially presented at a ceremony in Paris on December 16.

Even though in fairness to the sport I hope that Merc win I doubt it as it will show the FIA as incompetent. But stranger things have happened.

[kingqxxx]

The ending was a farce. I am not a fan of either Lewis or Max but Lewis should have won. Up until the safety car he had a 10 second lead and five cars between him and Max. If they were going to make it a 1 lap shootout they should have let Lewis change tyres for equal footing. Just shows that rules ain't rules for TV. Anyway, everyone will have their views but it will go down as probably the biggest screw up in F1 history and it was a dumb Aussie that did it. Just my 2 cents

Rules work 99% of the time. Until it doesn't. You can't possible write every situation into the rulebook. They can't technical allow Lewis to change tyre but yes that would be fair

[kingqxxx]

Heard a great one the other day

Chris Honer is the Horny Spice. His wife is Geri for those who dones't know.

[Vader]

Rules work 99% of the time. Until it doesn't. You can't possible write every situation into the rulebook. They can't technical allow Lewis to change tyre but yes that would be fair

Yes but the whole issue wouldn't have arose if they didn't let the lapped cars go through which hasn't happened before.

[exstar]

Best. Race. Ever!!

If they let all cars past in time for the final lap Max would still have taken Lewis anyway, as far as I understand all teams wanted the race to finish under a green flag no matter what so this was a compromise. Indeed Red Bull benefited from this but Lewis also benefited when he went off track on Lap 1 and still kept his lead. So it all evens out.

Red Bull were creative with their strategy, Perez towing Max on softs to get the pole, Perez holding Hamilton up to allow Max to catch up, switching to softs under the flags. Their gambles paid off. Mercedes played it too safe and it hurt them in the end.

Bring on 2022!!

[Applejoker]

amazing race - that was last minute gold when they let the cars through!

[MDPorto]

Neither Max not Lewis deserved to lose the championship, but there can only be one winner.

I think on performance Max/Red Bull over the course of the season were the better team this year and deserved to win the drivers championship. Mercedes got the constructors championship based on their experience of "knowing how to get the result when it counted".

But there is no doubt - the events which lead up to the conclusion of the race the other night were a complete farce. If they really wanted a proper green flag sprint finish at the end, the race should have been red flagged, all return to the pits and then line up on the grid for a 5 lap sprint to the finish. That would have been epic when the DRS got re-enabled after two laps.

[Vader]

Neither Max not Lewis deserved to lose the championship, but there can only be one winner.

I think on performance Max/Red Bull over the course of the season were the better team this year and deserved to win the drivers championship. Mercedes got the constructors championship based on their experience of "knowing how to get the result when it counted".

But there is no doubt - the events which lead up to the conclusion of the race the other night were a complete farce. If they really wanted a proper green flag sprint finish at the end, the race should have been red flagged, all return to the pits and then line up on the grid for a 5 lap sprint to the finish. That would have been epic when the DRS got re-enabled after two laps.

Totally agree with everything you said. It ended up as the biggest farce since James Hunt won in Japan. However, Lewis deserved to win the last race and would have if Massi followed the rule book and didn't exercise his Captains call which has ridiculed the sport.

[GoldfishMan]

If Masi followed the rules completely, the race would've ended with a safety car.

[Tiankou]

If Masi followed the rules completely, the race would've ended with a safety car.
If the race ended with a safety car, it would be less controversy. Red bull almost settled for 2nd before safety car anyway.

[kingqxxx]

Here is my view, and I am keen to hear if people think differently.

Steward first job is to ensure everyone get home alive after the race. This trumps all else which is just entertainment. On this count that have passed.

The second job is to ensure fairness, i.e. they should preserve the race dynamic before and after any incident. Hamilton had a edge before the incident. The decision Masi made completedly swing it the other way. If Masi were to allow the backmark to stay where they were (in between the two), that edge would still be with Hamilton and the dynamic would have been preserved. Verstappen would have to fight for a slim chance of winning same as before the incident.


So all in all, I think Masi should have let them race the last lap with the back marker sitting in between.

[Vader]

Here is my view, and I am keen to hear if people think differently.

Steward first job is to ensure everyone get home alive after the race. This trumps all else which is just entertainment. On this count that have passed.

The second job is to ensure fairness, i.e. they should preserve the race dynamic before and after any incident. Hamilton had a edge before the incident. The decision Masi made completedly swing it the other way. If Masi were to allow the backmark to stay where they were (in between the two), that edge would still be with Hamilton and the dynamic would have been preserved. Verstappen would have to fight for a slim chance of winning same as before the incident.


So all in all, I think Masi should have let them race the last lap with the back marker sitting in between.

If Masi followed the rule book and not made a captains call the cars would have have un lapped themselves, then a formation lap which would have been the last lap and Lewis would have won. How people can say it was a great race bewilders me. Hamilton led the whole race from the first corner. Red Bull threw everything at him and still couldn't catch him. As I said earlier I don't particularly like either driver but it is all about the rules and fairness. The biggest loser in this is the credibility of F1

[wachumba]

Safety cars were a lot more common in the past. The leader could lose their big lead 2-3 times per race and how teams used the SC were part of the strategy.
Given that MV was behind, they had nothing to lose by doing the opposite to LH.

Nobody wanted to a championship deciding races end in a SC except Mercedes after they realised they lost because MV pitted.
The Merc pit crew actually came out with tyres to pit LH so it appears Mercedes originally wanted to pit LH and then changed their excuses to keeping track position and ending under SC later.
Since they didn't want to end it under SC, Massi had to speed up the process. If there was more time and the full process was completed, MV would have ended up behind LH anyway and lost the race.
I do not think massi changed his mind about the lapped cars. The notice saying lapped cars not to overtake was up because it was not safe to do so. Once it was safe, it was changed to allow the 5 cars to unlap as the rules say can happen. There is no evidence that Massi was influenced by media or teams and changed his mind as some people are accusing. Sure, Horner made a comment asking why lapped cars were especially till there but Mercedes were even worse. Toto has trying to tell Massi what to do. It's all recorded so if there was, we would know by now.
Mercedes have been dirty all season. When Max changed his engine and ended at the back of the field, Mercedes mysteriously had to change Bottas engine to make it more difficult for him.
Mercedes went harder taking away points from MV for fastest lap earlier. RB did too but not as much as Merc.
Then there is the potential cheating with their rear wing, complaining about RB front wing earlier in the season and getting stricter testing done to force RB to make changes. Toto is worse than Horner. When MV ran LH off the track, MV came in way too hit and ran so wide that LH could have just alloqed MV to pass him under brakes and then make a very late turn it and kept it in track. This techniques is used by all racers except LH it seems. He just tried to run it on the outside so he could use the excuse that MV was trying to push him off. Then if MV took the lead while off track, he would have to give it back.
LH saying that Checo was driving dangerously when he was holding him up shows how much of a princess is. There was absolutely nothing dangerous about it. It was very fair driving from Checo but LH felt the need to complain.

Max deserved the title imo. He would have been ahead if his tyre did not blow out, and if LH hadn't run wide into him at Silverstone. LH line didn't even allow for both of them to run wheel to wheel so LH was always going to hit MV doing what he did.
LH got his luck at Silverstone with the red flag because it allowed them to repair his car. Merc even said the damage was so bad and they probably wouldn't have got points had it not been for the red flag.

[pokerslowly]

Honestly, you can pick the arguments to suit your preferred result.

I think the best driver won the WDC and the best car manufacturer won the WCC.

Always remember, this was a season of races and sports at the highest level isn’t about fairness; it’s about who will do what it takes to win, good strategy/teamwork and luck.